KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:10 pm

Being in a cage if anything allows for more footwork.

If you need a corner to trap someone to strike your not a great striker to begin with.

People say a giant wrestling mat is the best arena for combat no walls for interfering. ...except you can endlessly back pedal and run.

True strikers use timing and angles

Melvin manhoef sure as fuck isnt circing and running in bellator.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Dagwood on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:52 pm

fka wrote:Being in a cage if anything allows for more footwork.

If you need a corner to trap someone to strike your not a great striker to begin with.

People say a giant wrestling mat is the best arena for combat no walls for interfering. ...except you can endlessly back pedal and run.

True strikers use timing and angles

Melvin manhoef sure as fuck isn't circling and running in bellator.

You can keep making that argument for eternity like many but It just doesn't cut it.

Melvin can't reach somebody if they're running hard away all night 10-20ft or more across/around the cage. I've watched Jones endlessly do it and others even turning their back and sprinting. Even in a street fight how the fuck can you hit a guy when he's running away faster that you can run forward and punch effectively. I mean come on. It's called avoiding the fight and is against the rules even for short periods of time if it happens a lot.

This video below shows how avoidance and non-engagement means you don'y get hit. This would be illeagal in MMA here cause you ain't engaging. Unfortunately, if Melvin faced a top level fighter with these skills or better who also ran backward and laterally large distances across the cage... WTF chances of there of landing a lot of big or even little shots??? This is supposed to be illegal under unified rules. This doesn't have to be continuous to be illegal if the guys runs backpedaling way across/around the cage 10-20-30 times... that IS illegal under the Timidity rules. PERIOD.



Nobody ever calls this running from the fight/engagement just like the they don't with the hundreds of shots to the back of the head in finishing flourishes. Those are illegal too it doesn't matter a'fuck when they happen in the fight. It should be stopped and be called immediately for a warning/point taken/DQ just like this.

Take your argument on this elsewhere. It was old for me in 2004.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:06 pm

Dagwood wrote:
CDF47 wrote:
Golden Age wrote:
fka wrote:Wow what a decision fest.......
It´s the cages fault. Look at the Khalidov fight for an example, both guys ran round and round without getting cornered when they were under attack.

I agree.

A lot of these eastern european & russian guys are training in the states for periods of time. The Greg Jackson punch & run and endless backpedaling (officially ufc term = good footwork) is poisoning the engaging killers from over there. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! The zuffola virus, steel gayge, and uniFUCKED rules are rapidly killing the entire MMA world.

Watch how much Mamed backpedal and ran laterally. He threw about 3 combos in 3 rounds. In 1 shot... dart back out... don't engage... don't continue pressure run backwards endlessly 10-20 feet for striking defense... FUCK! WTF Mamed. He attempted man subs which is awesome.  Cooper is a cement head so that was going against him on the feet. I JUST CAN'T TAKE ALL THE NEWLY LEARNED FUCKING RUNNING!

Yeah, I cannot stand all the running in cage bouts. That Mamed fight really did show it. KSW needs to get back in the ring business ASAP.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by nodogoshi on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:43 pm

fka wrote:Being in a cage if anything allows for more footwork.

If you need a corner to trap someone to strike your not a great striker to begin with.

People say a giant wrestling mat is the best arena for combat no walls for interfering. ...except you can endlessly back pedal and run.

True strikers use timing and angles

Melvin manhoef sure as fuck isnt circing and running in bellator.

This is pure ignorance.

This is not a debate post.

This is an inform you post.

You don't have a leg to stand on for debate.

The best way to understand how ring generalship works is to watch boxing.

Cutting off the ring is a tactic.

If a fighter has a giant cage to run around, running is something which becomes enabled.

People can run in a 'square circle' as well. But the pursuer has much more opportunity to cut the ring off, and to set traps.

In the cage, you can run all day long. If you want to, you can indeed do nothing but run. (We've seen this before. Even Jon Jones, the supposed best fighter (lmfao) has employed the running across the ring 'tactic').

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:54 pm

Boxing isnt mma comparing a pure striking sport to mma is not logical.

Half the reason cage was made was help keep fightes in the arena when defending takedowns.

Dag your problem is with unified rules not the cage, if timidity and stalling were actually enforced running wouldnt be an issue.


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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Boxing you dont need to back pedal because theres no takedowns to defend it's all range timing and techniques.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:00 pm

You too nodogoshi your problem is with unified rule not actively punishing guys for running or not engaging in battle.

It allows for point fighting or just all out stalling which i despise.

This is not caused by a cage its unified rules.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:47 am

fka wrote:You too nodogoshi your problem is with unified rule not actively punishing guys for running or not engaging in battle.

It allows for point fighting or just all out stalling which i despise.

This is not caused by a cage its unified rules.

Exactly. I agree with this. You made some great points. Bring in yellow cards, judge fights in their entirety, and base it on who comes closer to winning then fights will be more exciting.
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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rizin=PRIDEFC on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:29 am

FACT 1: cage helps wrestlers

FACT 2: in ring striking is more attractive

that being said MMA is much more boring in cage so ring

You can cut angles and in ring(less but you can) generally ring works better for those who are going forward(because they can close you in corner) while cage works for those moving backwards (because you can you just circle).
And than you have Jon Jones circling whole fight and Carlos Condit running.
When guys are going forward fights are better so ring.

Good fighter CAN cut angles and in ring. Good fighter will not get closed by bad and get destroyed in corner.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:57 am

The problem with this theory is that it proves nothing. You're bringing up Jon Jones and Carlos Condit but once again, that has more to do with the awful unified rules than a cage. I going to keep saying it. The rules are the bigger reason than a cage and a ring. I guarantee you can have the holy ring but it would not make fights more exciting if you still have unified rules. Look at ONE FC. They have a cage and yet still have great fights and a high finish rate. Why? Because of the rules. In ONE FC, you can't run or you get a yellow card. You don't see fighters coasting or mentally giving up in the 3rd or 5th round because fights are judged in their entirety. The judges also look for who comes closer to finishing and damage all the while not scoring points for takedowns. Effective striking, grappling, and cage control doesn't mean as much. Fighters also have more weapons including soccer kicks, knees on the ground, and being able to kick and knee grounded opponents. I personally don't care if a fight goes to the ground or stays up so long as it's exciting and they're trying to go for finishes whether it be by knockout or ground and pound or submission. If I want striking in a ring then I'll watch kickboxing.
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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rizin=PRIDEFC on Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:25 pm

You can not give Jon Jones yellow card because he is not not fighting but he is moving that way and its not his skill but reach and cage. In ring he would be forced to fight more depending on his skill. Jones would have to not get closed in corner what is much harder for him than just to move away like in cage. Dont get me wrong ONE rules change a lot but I think it is more that ONE dosnt have a lot of US wrestlers who kill the game. you can't say Sonnen is not working(on opponent) improving position but he is boring as hell.
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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by God of Thunder on Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:37 pm

All fighters should prove themselves in the ring to be top ranked, especially the UFC fighters. Ring fighting and cage fighting are like two different sports.
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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:17 pm

Cage is beneficial to wrestlers....lmfao

Cages help strikers stop takedowns

Bjj guys can be just as boring or inactive it's ALL ABOUT THE RULES.

HOW many times have you seen a bjj guy getting positionally dominated by a wrestler and they just get frustrated and throw hands up or expect ref standup becuse they cant sweep,get a sub ,or get up.

I forget who but a bjj specialist recently came out and saud bjj hasn't evolved enough....i agree.


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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:22 pm

Ring is COMPLETELY MADE FOR STRIKING

was created for BOXING and KICKBOXING it literally has no benefits to grappling.

MMA is not boxing it is not kickboxing its a hybrid of standup and ground techniques ...thats why it has its own arena...a cage
(Jmma is a different animal ring will NEVER be implemented in NA)

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:53 pm

Well said. Grappling is a mess with a ring. It's easier to cheat since it's easier to grab a rope or wrap your arm around one. Fighters nearly fall out of the ring a lot and have on some occasions. The restarts in the middle are so awkward. People talk about Jones' reach but it's not his fault he's got a great reach and knows how to use it. There are fighters like Stefen Struve who have great reach but have no clue how to use it. I think you guys are mostly just boxing and kickboxing fans. All I hear about the ring is that it benefits strikers and wrestlers are boring. There's nothing wrong with wrestlers if they try to finish. I don't mind wrestlers if they try to go for ground and pound or submission. I agree with FKA. A ring is probably more beneficial for boxing and kickboxing cause that's what it's for. You're not supposed to grapple in a ring. Sometimes I wonder if you guys hate the cage just because the UFC was the first MMA company to use it.
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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by fka on Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:52 pm

Agreed ^

Best cage imo is bellator circular cagE striking and grappling flow easier less corners for wall n stall when pinned agsinst the cage it allows for more lateral movement and is just better looking.

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Re: KSW 29 Khalidov Vs Cooper Results & Discussion

Post by Rizin=PRIDEFC on Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:26 am

In cage after bad first attempt they go to cage and take guy down MMA is man vs man not man and cage vs man. When you are against cage and guy is working to take you down he is in much bigger advantage than guy defending. Cage is lil elastic if you push back against cage, cage will push back to so wrestlers push on cage and when cage responds then wrestler uses power only to up and guy defending is facing 2 forces in same time and you cant fight both in same time. If guy in ring tries to take you up you can rsist by pulling down but if you pull down whille against cage (and guy did what i mentioned above) by pulling down he will easily pull your legs out while in ring you dont have cage resistance and you can do like dont know how to call this position you put your ass throu roops (which spread) and that gives you better base in defending. Those lil things are hard to notice and hard to explain but trust me that I know what I am saying wrestlers have advantage in cage. I will try to find a Randy Couture instructional video where he shows those advantages. I think that BJJ would have advantage in cage because on end of day they are also trying to take down and would like to not get closed in corner in ring. There should be M1 thing on bottom to avoid weird restarts. We are not boxing and kickboxing fans we are MMA fans who want the best for MMA and advantage for strikers in ring is not that incredible. Wrestler will easier cut your way he can close you in corner and shot double leg so... It is different game and I like ring game more.
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