IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by westcott123 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:16 am

Rocksoldier84 wrote:It's great that Cro Cop retained but I don't want Fujita to fight anymore. He's 44, he's looked beat up for years, and his chin is gone. I do like the idea of Cro Cop/Kharitonov. I wonder why PRIDE never made that happen.
That is a good question it is a wonder maybe the mma gods will let it happen this year fingers crossed .
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:15 am

Was great to see that Cro Cop head kick TKO. It's been a while and done against a solid opponent.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by kayneoTheRisingWarrior on Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:20 pm

On December 29, 2014, IGF announced a deal with PPTV to bring its programming to Chinese audiences.

http://www.daily.co.jp/newsflash/ring/2014/12/29/0007621598.shtml

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by RussianTopTeam on Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:53 pm

CroCop looks like he hasn't aged one bit. He's in excellent shape. Either that, or he's on some serious juice. Happy he got the W in such spectacular way regardless 

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by stu3ufc on Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:00 am

I wanna know if Crocop the IGF HW champ gets recognise inside the global mma rankings?

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by Heretic on Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:16 am

wow i never thought i would see another cro cop kick land...
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by God of Thunder on Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:12 am

stu3ufc wrote:I wanna know if Crocop the IGF HW champ gets recognise inside the global mma rankings?
Should he be ranked higher than #7?
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:10 am

Golden Age wrote:
stu3ufc wrote:I wanna know if Crocop the IGF HW champ gets recognise inside the global mma rankings?
Should he be ranked higher than #7?

Possibly #5 or 6 as you can probably argue he had a better year than Kongo and maybe Grabowski who did lose his title. However, I wouldn't put him higher than that.
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:04 pm

Cro Cop does have a past loss to Kongo but it was a long time ago. This recent win will move Cro Cop above Kongo.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by westcott123 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:47 am

CDF47 wrote:Cro Cop does have a past loss to Kongo but it was a long time ago.  This recent win will move Cro Cop above Kongo.
but of course cro cop ate a lot of groin kicks from kongo which i think should of been a point deduction once i can understand but he did 3 or 4 x
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by nodogoshi on Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:02 am

I love Cro Cop.

But honestly, he needs to do better than two wins over Ishii and a win over Shinichi Suzukawa over a 4-fight span (in which time he also lost to Oleksiy Oliynyk, and the Suzukawa fight is actually meaningless) to warrant ranking, in my opinion. Crocop hasn't demonstrated that he's contender material by beating Ishii twice, and I don't see how one could be justify rating him merely off those two wins.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:34 am

CDF47 wrote:Cro Cop does have a past loss to Kongo but it was a long time ago.  This recent win will move Cro Cop above Kongo.

The Kongo loss was over seven years ago.
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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:58 pm

westcott123 wrote:
CDF47 wrote:Cro Cop does have a past loss to Kongo but it was a long time ago.  This recent win will move Cro Cop above Kongo.
but of course cro cop ate a lot of groin kicks from kongo which i think should of been a point deduction once i can understand but he did 3 or 4 x

Yeah he did.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:01 pm

nodogoshi wrote:I love Cro Cop.

But honestly, he needs to do better than two wins over Ishii and a win over Shinichi Suzukawa over a 4-fight span (in which time he also lost to Oleksiy Oliynyk, and the Suzukawa fight is actually meaningless) to warrant ranking, in my opinion. Crocop hasn't demonstrated that he's contender material by beating Ishii twice, and I don't see how one could be justify rating him merely off those two wins.

Not MMA but he also won K-1 tournament not that long ago and Ishii was ranked when Cro Cop beat him.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:01 pm

Rocksoldier84 wrote:
CDF47 wrote:Cro Cop does have a past loss to Kongo but it was a long time ago.  This recent win will move Cro Cop above Kongo.

The Kongo loss was over seven years ago.

Yeah, that's why I moved CC above him now. It was a long time ago and only a decision.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by nodogoshi on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:49 pm

CDF47 wrote:
nodogoshi wrote:I love Cro Cop.

But honestly, he needs to do better than two wins over Ishii and a win over Shinichi Suzukawa over a 4-fight span (in which time he also lost to Oleksiy Oliynyk, and the Suzukawa fight is actually meaningless) to warrant ranking, in my opinion. Crocop hasn't demonstrated that he's contender material by beating Ishii twice, and I don't see how one could be justify rating him merely off those two wins.

Not MMA but he also won K-1 tournament not that long ago and Ishii was ranked when Cro Cop beat him.  

Exactly, not MMA. K-1 is irrelevant in my opinion.

I guess that the way you do your rankings is by replacing guys who get beat with the guy that beat them. If that's your system so be it, but I've voiced my opinions on this before. In my view, rankings are not as straightforward as that. You certainly do have to take a guy's body of work into account when figuring his ranking, for one. More to the point though, if one guy loses to a guy below him, the loser tends downward and the winner tends upward. The loss is as much an indication of where the one guy is as the win is an indication of where the other guy is. They don't simply switch places. Say you have a #10 guy beat a #5 guy. The #10 guy is not now #5. He may be #7, and the guy who was #5 might now be #8, just for an illustrative example of what I mean.

So, if Crocop beat a guy who had a low ranking twice, and those are his only meaningful wins in MMA in years (which they are), that does not warrant a ranking, in my opinion. I know that Crocop is a legend and a hero. But you have to be non-biased.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:01 pm

nodogoshi wrote:
CDF47 wrote:
nodogoshi wrote:I love Cro Cop.

But honestly, he needs to do better than two wins over Ishii and a win over Shinichi Suzukawa over a 4-fight span (in which time he also lost to Oleksiy Oliynyk, and the Suzukawa fight is actually meaningless) to warrant ranking, in my opinion. Crocop hasn't demonstrated that he's contender material by beating Ishii twice, and I don't see how one could be justify rating him merely off those two wins.

Not MMA but he also won K-1 tournament not that long ago and Ishii was ranked when Cro Cop beat him.  

Exactly, not MMA. K-1 is irrelevant in my opinion.

I guess that the way you do your rankings is by replacing guys who get beat with the guy that beat them. If that's your system so be it, but I've voiced my opinions on this before. In my view, rankings are not as straightforward as that. You certainly do have to take a guy's body of work into account when figuring his ranking, for one. More to the point though, if one guy loses to a guy below him, the loser tends downward and the winner tends upward. The loss is as much an indication of where the one guy is as the win is an indication of where the other guy is. They don't simply switch places. Say you have a #10 guy beat a #5 guy. The #10 guy is not now #5. He may be #7, and the guy who was #5 might now be #8, just for an illustrative example of what I mean.

So, if Crocop beat a guy who had a low ranking twice, and those are his only meaningful wins in MMA in years (which they are), that does not warrant a ranking, in my opinion. I know that Crocop is a legend and a hero. But you have to be non-biased.

No, I don't just simply replace them.  I wrote that in the ranking rules that beating someone does not mean you take their spot.  It could happen but not often.  CC beat Ishii the second time by finish and moved up another notch.  Ishii was ranked and is in contenders now.  The K-1 fights didn't factor in.

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by nodogoshi on Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:45 pm

This is Crocop's MMA record since 2009. I can see absolutely no reasoning for ranking him, aside from his two wins over Ishii. I do not think these two wins and these two wins alone warrant ranking.

I'm just presenting my opinion of course. But, I just can't see how this is explicable. Unless it's just a matter where there are none among the contenders who've proved more worthy (looking at the 'contenders', I see how this is maybe the case. Actually, I guess that does make sense in a way).


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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by stu3ufc on Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:57 am

nodogoshi wrote: K-1 is irrelevant in my opinion.
.




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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by nodogoshi on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:01 am

stu3ufc wrote:
nodogoshi wrote: K-1 is irrelevant in my opinion.
.




I'm talking about in relation to MMA rankings (as I'm sure you know).

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Re: IGF INOKI BOM-BA-YE 2014 Results & Discussion

Post by CDF47 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:36 pm

nodogoshi wrote:This is Crocop's MMA record since 2009. I can see absolutely no reasoning for ranking him, aside from his two wins over Ishii. I do not think these two wins and these two wins alone warrant ranking.

I'm just presenting my opinion of course. But, I just can't see how this is explicable. Unless it's just a matter where there are none among the contenders who've proved more worthy (looking at the 'contenders', I see how this is maybe the case. Actually, I guess that does make sense in a way).


Ranking Cro Cop was entirely based on his first win against Ishii.  Ishii was ranked so Cro Cop had to be moved ahead of him.  Ishii dropped in the rankings from the loss and Cro Cop entered the rankings.  He did not move into the Ishii spot but he entered the rankings.  Cro Cop then beat the ranked/contender Ishii again by head kick and moved up just one spot while Ishii fell a bit more in the contenders.  If someone is in the rankings and they are defeated, the fighter that beat him will always be listed above him.  Sometimes fighters just drop out of contenders after a loss and neither fighter is ranked and a new fighter is added to the rankings.

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