Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

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Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nodogoshi on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:45 pm

This is an honest question, not a setup question.

PBC is growing on me, and I follow the reporting in it, such as by Eddie Goldman (well, basically only that).

I think that PBC had some hiccups at first, as any new venture is expected to do, and now they are starting to really roll along.

I was worried about Zuffa-ization by over saturation and over-control of fighters, but I haven't seen the latter, nor have I seen the former.

I've been quite enjoying the amount of really high quality boxing. Immensely so, in fact. Hell, it gives me a reason not to watch shit like Zuffa.

I just have a simple question; it seems like Haymon is acting as manager and promoter, which is what I thought was banned under the Ali Act.

But wasn't that basically an anti-Don King act to begin with?

There may need to be some revisions to bring it up to speed. One such revision would be to extend it to MMA (which, as it were, is regulated by the same institutions ('commissions') which regulate boxing).

As for Haymon and PBC, well I'm guessing they had their lawyers figure out a way to be above board, probably, which is fine I suppose.

I'm just curious about this.

Perhaps it is that Haymon is a manager, but PBC is a separate promotional corporation, or something.

Is that about right?

I was cynical for a while, but I'm not anti-PBC anymore.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nodogoshi on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:52 pm

Out of curiosity, I just looked up Al's Wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Haymon

There's really nothing there worth anything.

This is kind of funny though.

Criticism and controversy Haymon is rarely seen and never interviewed. Greg Bishop of the New York Times suggests that Haymon functions as both promoter and manager, against the principles of the Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act, which was designed to separate boxing promoters from boxing managers.[1] Haymon's influence has been seen as gaining fights for his fighters' prime spots on HBO, but these fights are seen as less-than-quality match-ups and instead easy fights to get exposure for his fighters. This influence has been questioned by Max Kellerman of HBO Sports.[4]"]

This passage needs to be added on to. "Max Kellerman says..."

"However, others are less cynical. Eddie Goldman says..."

Not up to the task right now, maybe later. But I'd need help, especially from Eddie Wink. This could be an email project or something.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by Rizin=PRIDEFC on Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:48 am

I guess everyone knows he runs all but he is not officially doing both functions.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nhbnews on Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:08 am

The issues of the quality of PBC shows, matchmaking, etc., can be dealt with separately. They certainly have been uneven, if overall fairly good.

The Ali Act was mostly written to counter Don King.

King was accused of not paying his fighters their contracted purses. A lot of fighters were illiterate or semi-literate and could not read whatever contracts there were.

He was accused of forcing them to use his stepson, Carl King, as manager.

He would demand options of fighters not under contract to him to get big fights with his fighters. That means that these other fighters had to sign contracts which stipulated that if they beat King's fighters, King would have to promote or co-promote them for a period of time.

All this and more were outlawed by the Ali Act.

Now to Haymon. He came into boxing as an advisor/manager to fighters under contract mainly to Golden Boy, which of course is a promotional company. They would then get a broadcasters usually then HBO, who also signed the top fighters to exclusive contracts.

When De La Hoya was drinking and getting high so much that he landed in rehab and could not function as head of Golden Boy, Richard Schaefer essentially ran it alone. Reportedly he tried to get Oscar to sell the company to the same investors who now bankroll Haymon. Oscar said no, but was still not really functional. So with him sidelined and Schaefer running the show, Schaefer let almost all of the fighters' promotional contracts with Golden Boy expire. I think this was sometime in mid-2014.

Now Haymon gets the financial backing of the Waddell & Reed money guys, again reportedly for $400 million. He then uses much of the money to buy time on NBC, CBS, ESPN, etc., to pay the fighters for whom he is advisor/manager nice purses, and for fancy production (whose value is open to question, especially the announcing).

As for promoters, PBC uses established, well-known promoters, like Lou DiBella of DBE mainly in the East, Tom Brown of TGB (successor to the late Dan Goossen) in the West, and others like Leon Margules of Warriors Boxing. These companies do what promoters usually do, such as ticketing, etc.

What Haymon and PBC do besides managing the fighters is finance and run the TV, along with the networks, of course.

The definitions of a promoter are, in my opinion, antiquated, and don't include the TV aspects. If they did, then any network which has fighters sign exclusive contracts, in particular HBO, would also be a promoter.

Yes, it is a unique arrangement. I think it meets the obsolete letter of the law. Plus, I think it has overall been quite beneficial to the fighters and the boxing business, at least for now.

It is absurd to say they are a monopoly. Look at any top ten pound-for-pound list, and the only Haymon fighter on there is Mayweather, who has his own promotion, is not part of PBC, and will retire soon.

At some point, there may be a time when Haymon puts the PBC's interests ahead of his fighters. This is why the fighters need a union and collective bargaining. Haymon may not even be opposed to that, but we shall see.

So I think they stay within the letter of the law. As for the spirit of the law, it was meant to deal with an entirely different situation, and can't just be applied to this one.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nodogoshi on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:39 pm

Excellent and fascinating response. I completely agree. You also educated me on a lot of aspects, thanks a lot Eddie.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nhbnews on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:48 pm

Thanks. We'll see how it plays out. Law is subordinate to political reality, and Haymon has a lot of powerful enemies. Plus, PBC has to start making money and creating more buzz eventually. Their matchmaking has not been consistent (like Sunday's Dirrell-Rubio main event). If only they can get Mayweather to go for 50-0 on free TV!

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by TeamJohnPerretti on Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:42 am

I've watched almost every PBC event.

It has had some growing pains but overall i enjoy their shows.

It's nice to see boxing back on network tv.

Just Sunday i was visiting a friend who doesn't have cable..it was great to still be able to watch the fights.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by TeamJohnPerretti on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:00 pm

I like that many of the fighters have been active.

Broner, Robert Guerrero, Shawn Porter, Keith Thurman and Chris Arreola have already fought on multiple PBC cards.

I'm also a huge fan of the afternoon shows. It's nice to see boxing with different start times.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by TeamJohnPerretti on Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:46 am

Looking forward to the PBC show on Bounce tv Friday night.

The last show on Bounce tv was awesome.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by TeamJohnPerretti on Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:49 am

I will say I've seen a few different writers say that on and off the record Al Haymon fighters always speak well of him.

It's good to see that fighters are happy.

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Re: Explain to me how Haymon is not violating the Ali act

Post by nodogoshi on Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:16 am

PBC really sucks.

Haymon sucks.

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