Best HW submission fighter?

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Best HW submission fighter?

Post by Kinosis on Thu May 12, 2016 8:22 pm

Usually when heavyweight submission fighters are talked about, the best of all time are considered to be Werdum, Big Nog, Josh Barnett and Frank Mir.

In what order do you currently rank these guys? Take everything into account: record, amount of time they dominated, being busted for PEDs, battles against each other, etc.

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by Kinosis on Thu May 12, 2016 8:35 pm

It's a tough one for #1 for me.

#1 Big Nog has the most wins and has beaten a ton of legends. The end of his career was bad, but his body was so beat up. Still, he retired at 34-10. In his prime he beat both Barnett and Werdum.

#2 Werdum is 20-5 and has some big name wins on his record and he is still looking great. He isn't retired yet and I am sure how his career ends will change things one way or the other but as of now I have him at #2 but very quickly coming up on #1. He hasn't fought Barnett or Mir and is 1-1 against Nog.

#3 Josh Barnett is 34-8 and still going. He is 1-1 with Big Nog and 1-0 against Mir. I would have Josh higher probably but failing multiple steroid tests has definitely hurt his legacy. Who knows if he would have gone as far if he wasn't cheating. He hasn't retired yet but his last years are quickly approaching and he has been looking worse lately.

#4 Frank Mir has the worst record at 18-11. His career is weird, he has beat guys he was supposed to lose to but lost to some guys he should have crushed without much effort. He is 2-0 against Big Nog and 0-1 against Barnett. Though not officially retired, he just failed his PED test (both A & B samples) and is probably looking at a 2 year suspension which would most likely end his career for good. He was also on TRT in his early 30s. Being on TRT in his early 30s for having low testosterone just reeks lifelong steroid abuse. Like Barnett, makes me wonder if he would have had as much success without the PEDs.


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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by CDF47 on Thu May 12, 2016 10:37 pm

1. Werdum
2. Nog
3. Barnett
4. Mir

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by fka on Thu May 12, 2016 10:45 pm

Fedor

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by CDF47 on Fri May 13, 2016 9:09 am

^Great post

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by stu3ufc on Fri May 13, 2016 12:07 pm

CDF47 wrote:1. Werdum
2. Nog
3. Barnett
4. Mir

agree with this

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by TeepToTheJunk on Fri May 13, 2016 10:31 pm

Fedor, Werdum, Barnett, Big Nog in no particular order.

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by CDF47 on Fri May 13, 2016 11:13 pm

I like the idea of adding Fedor to the list. Possibly around number 5 or so.

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by TeepToTheJunk on Sat May 14, 2016 9:32 am

Fedor was a fully integrated fighter not reliant on grappling alone but he slapped some ferocious subs on as the opportunity arose. His striking and offensive/defensive grappling blended seamlessly,and are hard to separate but there's a compelling argument he's the HW grapple GOAT, based on his ten year Glorious Streak of Absolute Victory.

Prime Fedor crushed Prime Big Nog including from the man's guard for prolonged periods in the most Jedi level GnP and defensive grappling display ever seen.
Subbed Sylvia in 36 seconds, but really in 5 seconds of grappling.
Subbed Olympic silver medalist and 4x world champ judoka Ogawa in under a minute
That lightning fast sub of Fujita while badly rocked.
Swept and subbed Randleman shortly after not dying from the Randleplex.
Armbarred the enormous HongMan like a kung fu movie. A physically daunting task getting an arm the size of his legs (twice)
Subbed Coleman twice
Subbed Lindland in what dude called the most buttery sub he ever felt (paraphrasing)
Subbed Hunto
Subbed only once in 40 pro fights (by a fellow submission great ten years into his career)

In his prime Fedor in the ring was unstoppable. Werdum, Big Nog, Mir, Barnett etc all got shut down by somebody in their physical primes. Not Fedor.

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Re: Best HW submission fighter?

Post by CDF47 on Sat May 14, 2016 10:50 am

TeepToTheJunk wrote:Fedor was a fully integrated fighter not reliant on grappling alone but he slapped some ferocious subs on as the opportunity arose. His striking and offensive/defensive grappling blended seamlessly,and are hard to separate but there's a compelling argument he's the HW grapple GOAT, based on his ten year Glorious Streak of Absolute Victory.

Prime Fedor crushed Prime Big Nog including from the man's guard for prolonged periods in the most Jedi level GnP and defensive grappling display ever seen.
Subbed Sylvia in 36 seconds, but really in 5 seconds of grappling.
Subbed Olympic silver medalist and 4x world champ judoka Ogawa in under a minute
That lightning fast sub of Fujita while badly rocked.
Swept and subbed Randleman shortly after not dying from the Randleplex.
Armbarred the enormous HongMan like a kung fu movie. A physically daunting task getting an arm the size of his legs (twice)
Subbed Coleman twice
Subbed Lindland in what dude called the most buttery sub he ever felt (paraphrasing)
Subbed Hunto
Subbed only once in 40 pro fights (by a fellow submission great ten years into his career)

In his prime Fedor in the ring was unstoppable. Werdum, Big Nog, Mir, Barnett etc all got shut down by somebody in their physical primes. Not Fedor.

GOAT



Nice breakdown

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