Stipe way overrated right now

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Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Kinosis on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:26 am

Miocic is a good HW, but people are acting like he is the best of all time (like they always do with whomever is champ currently). Let's put things into perspective:

Stipe is champ over a weight class where almost everyone in it is much older than he is. Stipe isn't young being 34 years old himself, but guys like Werdum are turning 40 here soon. Being 5 years younger is a big advantage when most of the HWs are near 40.

Stipe is champ in a weight class where the #2 ranked guy is 40 in a few weeks. The #3 ranked guy (Velasquez) is 1-1 in the last 4 YEARS. 4 years is a long time for a fighter. It's longer than most guys can stay at the top, if they ever get to the top. How in the world can a guy who is 1-1 be ranked #3 in a weightclass? lol The #5 ranked guy (JDS) is 3-4 in the last 5 years. So ruling over a weight class that is made up of old guys, people who barely fight or lose all the time isn't that impressive historically.

The point of this is to simply put things into perspective. I like Stipe as he is a respectful guy and doesn't talk crap all of the time. He is the best HW right now for sure, it's just that isn't saying much considering the landscape.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:38 am

Like you said they like to tag whom ever is the ufc hw champ with the goat title  the only young gun in the top ten is that Francis nganu here the zombies say the heavyweight division is so much more evolved . so don't worry they will be sticking the goat hw to whom ever is the next champ


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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:47 am

Compare that to Fedor era
1st big nog bout 19+1+1
2nd big nog bout 24+2+1+1
3rd big nog bout 24-3+1-1
Cro cop 16-2-2
Tim Sylvia 24-4
Arlovski 15-5
Brett rogers 9-0 or 10-0
Heath herring 20-7
Mark Coleman 13-6 15-8
Kevin randleman 15-7
These are the record his opponent had prior to facing him most did have winning records
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Kinosis on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:49 am

^Yup, HW was much better between 2002-2009 than it is today.  That time period was made up of legendary MMA fighters in their prime, in the prime of MMA.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:54 am

Kinosis wrote:^Yup, HW was much better between 2002-2009 than it is today.  That time period was made up of legendary MMA fighters in their prime, in the prime of MMA.

That is true prime Fedor is more well rounded then the so called new breed heavyweight today a prime cro cop and big nog would give them fits a prime big nog with high level jujitsu a granite chin and doesn't give up cro cop with that explosive left head kick and was hard to take down
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:55 pm

Stipe has a lot more to prove at HW to get his name up there with guys like Fedor. He is the best HW right now as you said but he only has a couple title defenses.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:20 am

It's ridiculous how desperate zombies are. To them, all you have to do is defend the UFC Heavyweight Championship twice and you're the Heavyweight GOAT. They did the same shit when Cain was on top. After he beat JDS in 2013 in their rubber fight, they were saying he was the greatest. How well did that turn out? Cain was on top for three years and then fell apart. Fedor was on top ten years and beat a lot of the best of the best of his time. Then again, UFC always brands the Heavyweight Champion as "The Baddest Man on the Planet".
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Kinosis on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:42 pm

^Exactly.  Let's see any of these guys stay on top for 5 years (much less 10), then maybe we can start talking about a new GOAT.  And these guys aren't fighting nearly as often as Fedor did or against guys with great records like Fedor did.  They are mostly fighting old guys.  

Cain is only 1-1 in the last 4 years!  That isn't a GOAT record.  Fedor has been more active than Cain and Fedor was retired for 3.5 years.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:58 pm

I like Miocic and Velasquez but they haven't got the resumes of Fedor. Velasquez could've been great and a possible upgrade to Fedor but he can never stay healthy and at times has gone an entire year without fighting as he missed all of 2014 and he's hasn't fought this year. It also doesn't help that he basically fought the same two guys for a couple of years in JDS and Bigfoot. Miocic is also good but at lot of his opponents are aging fighters. Mark Hunt was already in his forties while he, Arlovski, Werdum, and Overeem have tons of mileage. JDS has also been out of his prime since the third Cain fight four years ago. Fedor not only fought 3-5 times in his first five years of his career but he was also competing in sambo on the side. Imagine fighting at a high level and competing in other competitions at the same time.
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:01 pm

^^ one of reasons why I wasn't sold on Cain is apart from the injuries was the the fact that he fought the same two opponents Which let's be real both are perfect style match up for him .

As for stipe same thing yeah I would like how he goes against someone who is top 5 but hasn't got the mileage and the wear and tear
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:07 am

^^I think that's always been a somewhat brilliant move from The UFC. They're able to create an illusion by having their best fighters beat some of the best in the world but at the same time, they still protect fighters by putting them with stylistically perfect opponents and/or aging names. Velasquez was one example. Anderson Silva is one of the best ones as he was billed as a deadly striker but if you look at his record, he never fought many good technical strikers outside of Belfort. Everyone else was either grapplers, guys with knockout power but no technical skills, and swing for the fences guys. Chuck Liddell was probably the most protected fighter of all time as his title reign and most of his opponents during his prime were grapplers with not good striking.
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:44 am

The ufc does do that the ufc did play of Anderson as being this mystical striker easy to look like that when facing grappler's or slow un athletic LHW as bloodstain lane said people with boxing skills like Estelle Getty from the Golden girls

Chuck was billed as the scary sprawl and brawler yet anytime he fought a striker he either lost or struggled and Chuck in my view was never the best LHW number 2 or 3 Shogun rua was the best with wand and chuck at 2 and 3
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:32 am

It sucks that Cain is always injured. He could have been one of the best, like someone else mentioned but he is never capable of fighting due to injuries. I wonder how much longer his career will last at this rate.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Kinosis on Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:48 pm

^It's hard to say.  He will be 35 pretty soon.  That would mean his career is coming to an end in most divisions but since HW hasn't been built up by the ufc like it should have been, 35 is still young.  He is just really inactive though, being 1-1 in the last 4 years.  4 years is a long time to only have 2 fights when you are somehow the third ranked guy in a division.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:04 pm

Kinosis wrote:^It's hard to say.  He will be 35 pretty soon.  That would mean his career is coming to an end in most divisions but since HW hasn't been built up by the ufc like it should have been, 35 is still young.  He is just really inactive though, being 1-1 in the last 4 years.  4 years is a long time to only have 2 fights when you are somehow the third ranked guy in a division.

Wow, 1-1 in 4 years. That's crazy. I am not sure his career is going to last too much longer.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rizin=PRIDEFC on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:53 am

Stipe is great fighter but you can't have new GOAT every 6 months. Why is Werdum not GOAT any more?

Fighters have highs and lows and you need to assess career as whole and not in the moment.

Stipe is GOAT now but for 8 or so months, he could lose belt to Francis Ngannou and be that bum who beat old JDS, Overeem who sucks so bad that he lost to Travis Browne and Werdum who was so overrated and was running on him stupid way (this is not my opinion but this is what they will say).

Those fans are like:
(somebody losses two fights) He sucks and he should retire!
(when someone KOs somebody) No one is stoping this guy.

Good example of that is Brock Lesnar who to fans is sometimes great and sometimes sucks.

You need to assess career as whole and not in the moment.
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:58 am

Rizin=PRIDEFC wrote:Stipe is great fighter but you can't have new GOAT every 6 months. Why is Werdum not GOAT any more?

Fighters have highs and lows and you need to assess career as whole and not in the moment.

Stipe is GOAT now but for 8 or so months, he could lose belt to Francis Ngannou and be that bum who beat old JDS, Overeem who sucks so bad that he lost to Travis Browne and Werdum who was so overrated and was running on him stupid way (this is not my opinion but this is what they will say).

Those fans are like:
(somebody losses two fights) He sucks and he should retire!
(when someone KOs somebody) No one is stoping this guy.

Good example of that is Brock Lesnar who to fans is sometimes great and sometimes sucks.

You need to assess career as whole and not in the moment.

That always irritated me about those fans. One loss and the greatest fighter is now a joke to them and vice versa for one or two wins. Makes no sense. All the top fighters have losses right now, except possibly Jon Jones who was robbed with his one loss against Hamil.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:38 am

https://www.mmamania.com/2017/7/3/15915080/can-crushing-fedor-not-best-ever-because-didnt-beat-alistair-overeem-mma

Yep according to overoid fedor is not the heavyweight goat because he Fedor didn't fight him

Fedor in pride 14-0-1nc
Overeem in pride 7-7 and anytime he fought a top 5 fighter he got smashed  
Rua 2x arona Liddell .

As for Fedor well I never saw overeem make an effort back when both  were under the pride banner .

I hope werdum wins

And the zombies yep same stupid shit from them
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:40 am

westcott123 wrote:https://www.mmamania.com/2017/7/3/15915080/can-crushing-fedor-not-best-ever-because-didnt-beat-alistair-overeem-mma

Yep according to overoid fedor is not the heavyweight goat because he Fedor didn't fight him

Fedor in pride 14-0-1nc
Overeem in pride 7-7 and anytime he fought a top 5 fighter he got smashed  
Rua 2x arona Liddell .

As for Fedor well I never saw overeem make an effort back when both  were under the pride banner .

I hope werdum wins

And the zombies yep same stupid shit from them

Says the guy who had an average but decently successful run in PRIDE, was also accused of ducking competition and being a can crusher, did steroids for years until getting caught, didn't defend his Strikeforce Title until two and a half years after he won it, never defended his DREAM title. What was special about Overeem that Fedor had to face him back then? What did he have that Tim Sylvia or Andrei Arlovski or Bigfoot Silva or Dan Henderson didn't?
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:54 am

Nothing and as for overeem look at his record its full of "bums" and no name fighters .  Fedor will be the heavyweight goat until some one breaks that record it will not be repeated .

The idea that a fighter has to go to the ufc to "prove" their legacy they can piss off . I mean what makes ufc so special ? Last  time I looked they have two arms and two legs like anyone else . People say oh the ufc fighter  "is a higher level " then insert ______ when a person asks what exactly it is because they're in the ufc nothing about striking wrestling submissions. Then again these are the people who call mma ufc


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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:45 am

I don't see anyone breaking Fedor's MMA GOAT record for a long time.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:12 am

westcott123 wrote:Nothing and as for overeem look at his record its full of "bums" and no name fighters .  Fedor will be the heavyweight goat until some one breaks that record it will not be repeated .

The idea that a fighter has to go to the ufc to "prove" their legacy they can piss off . I mean what makes ufc so special ? Last  time I looked they have two arms and two legs like anyone else . People say oh the ufc fighter  "is a higher level " then insert ______ when a person asks what exactly it is because they're in the ufc nothing about striking wrestling submissions. Then again these are the people who call mma ufc

It's sad how dumbasses fall for it. How many more outside champions have to be successful in the UFC before people realize that being in the UFC doesn't make you a Super Saiyan? Not to mention, former UFC fighters don't always dominate outside of the UFC. Also, if UFC was truly elite then how come they never send anyone to these other companies when tournaments are held? Of course we know why since Dana likely still has nightmares of Liddell losing in PRIDE and welshing on a bet he made with Sakakibara.
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by westcott123 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:47 am

•I say it haunts him and the ufc knows it can happen again

• some of the fighters they're "fans" of yet just a few years ago "they're " can crushers " fighting in the "b leagues"

• according to them the ufc was top dog from day one and that pride was a c level organization and the ufc is/was the "tougher" organization yet pride had a rule set "that could kill you" guys fighting people 20-50lbs bigger then them .


• They think McGregor fighting Diaz was a David vs Goliath type thing (sakuraba,Fedor,Henderson,hell even wanderlei Silva who has always been a small light heavyweight regardless of roids and he took on bigger fights then him as well .
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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by CDF47 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:33 pm

I think the winner of Reem/Werdum has a decent shot at beating Stipe in the rematch.

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Re: Stipe way overrated right now

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:32 pm

westcott123 wrote:•I say it haunts him and the ufc knows it can happen again

• some of the fighters they're "fans" of yet just a few years ago "they're " can crushers " fighting in the "b leagues"

• according to them the ufc was top dog from day one and that pride was a c level organization and the ufc is/was the "tougher" organization yet pride had a rule set "that could kill you" guys fighting people 20-50lbs bigger then them .


• They think McGregor fighting Diaz was a David vs Goliath type thing (sakuraba,Fedor,Henderson,hell even wanderlei Silva who has always been a small light heavyweight regardless of roids and he took on bigger fights then him as well .

Sadly, this applies to the media. If you talk to zombies and the media, they act like MMA began when the UFC did yet Shooto and Pancrase were around before the UFC. I also hear people describe PRIDE as "The Biggest Promotion in Japan" when it really was the biggest.

I don't get how McGregor fighting Diaz is David vs. Goliath when they're the same natural weight class.
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